The existentialist left conservative
It’s been two years and four months since
the death of Norman Mailer. In honor of him,
here are some excerpts from a discussion
between Mailer and William F. Buckley on Firing
Line in 1968.
Buckley was interviewing Mailer about his
latest book, “Armies of the Night,” published
in 1968, which recounts the anti-Vietnam War
demonstration at which Mailer got drunk and
was arrested. You can find the whole thing on
YouTube.
NM: So far as I know my reasons for getting
drunk that night and so far as they had a point,
one of the points was that I’ve always found
the Left to be as stuffy as the Right. In other
words, the extreme Left is about as boring as
the extreme Right, and I think both suffer terribly
from this … I just wanted to get up there
and show them a man can be drunk and make
no pretensions about it and have a marvelous
time.
WFB: Is there a point at which you would
have considered that you would not have been
prepared to disobey the law, that is to say if the
penalty was enormous?
NM: Let’s say if the penalty had been life
imprisonment, what I would have done is been
forced to go underground or leave the country
or turn into an enemy of the country.
WFB: Well, aren’t you in one sense an enemy
of the country?
NM: No, sir. Not yet.
WFB: What do you mean, not yet?
NM: I still believe that this country is a
marvelous country and that one fights within
this country. If one’s completely wiped off the
board, in other words if you really have no
way to fight your ideas any longer in this country,
then you have to decide one of two things,
which is either one, your ideas are wrong, or
two, the country is wrong.
WFB: Correct, but we have for instance
Mr. Gore Vidal, who says that unless we elect
an anti-Vietnam War president in November
of 1968, he will renounce his citizenship. His
reasoning is that if in fact the American people
ratify a war that he considers so detestable,
then he will finally be convinced the American
people are not worthy of being associated with.
You don’t share that, do you?
NM: Well, I don’t because for one thing I
don’t think the vote is a pure expression of the
people at any given time, anyway. The vote is
much too crude an instrument to measure what
real feelings are in the country. Moreover, politics
is extraordinarily complex and dialectical
and contradictory …
The way I work, and it’s very difficult to
explain this to people, but I don’t think in categories.
I try to think in this way, that the world
is better off if every so-called type in the world
is better. In other words, it’s a better world
when the cops get better and the criminals get
better. It’s a poorer world when the cops are
dull and the criminals are dull.
In other words, as an existentialist, what I
believe is that what’s really important about a
moment is how much life there is — how much
psychic life, how much spiritual life, how much
physical life.
WFB: I think we’d better stop and rescue
that from banality.
NM: Please do because I can’t see where the
banality is.
Ben Wolford is a junior newspaper journalism
major and a columnist for the Daily Kent Stater.
Contact him at [email protected].